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Amicable break up with a friend who is on the Autism spectrum (but I suspect is narcissistic and somewhere on the ASPD spectrum)

Amicable break up with a friend who is on the Autism spectrum (but I suspect is narcissistic and somewhere on the ASPD spectrum)

anonymoussss37

Sometimes autism can appear sociopathic/psychopathic. These people either HIGHLY empathize, or ACT as if they can’t feel for others to COPE. Really, you’re probably one of the closest people to this pwASD/pwASPD, so it would be an ample proof for you to search through your memories and research, IF YOU WANT TO KNOW—which I don’t get why you would lol Edit: I think so at least, not a professional, and don’t know them; just based on information I’ve come across. Don’t feel bad about it, it’s not your fault.


elconejorojo

Sorry, I don’t know what the “pw” stands for. I tried googling it but couldn’t find it. Can you please explain what it stands for?


paperofbelief

"Person with"


Pure-Bumblebee3727

It would be kinda fucked up to leave someone just because you suspect them of having a mental illness if he’s done nothing to hurt you but if ur that scared then do what u gotta do. He probably says shit like that because he’s either A. Insecure and thinks of himself as a bad person B. Socially awkward autistic C. U mentioned his shitty upbringing. People often learn how to lie well as a child if they grew up in a trashy home, kids learn to lie about everything to protect themselves and it can follow you into adulthood. Doesn’t make them a sociopath Might I add that autistic people often do have to “mask” as well to fit into a world designed for NT’s to avoid trouble


elconejorojo

I agree about it being kinda fucked up to leave only because I suspected it. But I’ve been seeing a counselor for several months. And she never saw anything wrong with him when I talked about him. She explained some things to me about his autism. But after the most recent conversations she started to see manipulations and after my last conversation with him, she said that those are definitely signs of a narcissistic antisocial personality disorder. Now, I don’t know if she thinks he’s a psychopath or sociopath. She is after all going on limited information and hasn’t spoken to him. And I would prefer to confirm that he is or isn’t one before I cut him off forever because I would really rather much have him around. As I said, he’s always been good to me. But the lying and the sudden extreme switch in personalities was confusing and disturbed me. I’ve played with the thought of asking if he’d be willing to join me in my counseling session but I just don’t know. What would you say to someone that was your friend who asked you to go to counseling with them to clear shit up?


Dense_Advisor_56

Your counselor should be focusing on you, not diagnosing people with 2nd hand information. Very unprofessional. Also, most counselors aren't medically trained professionals, so they have no business making such assumptions.


elconejorojo

Well she is focusing on me because he’s what I’m having trouble with and she’s trying to help me sort through it. I know and she mentioned as well that the advice she’s giving me on him is of course very limited since she doesn’t meet with him. She only has snippets of things I tell her about him from my perspective within a limited amount of time.


Dense_Advisor_56

Uh-huh. So basically nothing she says on him is valid. 1 - not medically trained 2 - does not meet with the person in question 3 - has limited time and resources 4 - has no access to the person's medical history


elconejorojo

Yes but that also doesn't mean she isn't trained or skilled in spotting the traits of the disorders of people (even if it's not directly from the source) and able to theorize intentions based on the information I've given her. And I'm not saying she's correct either mostly because of the things you pointed out in #2 and #4.


Dense_Advisor_56

It seems to me she feels your relationship with this guy is problematic, toxic, or otherwise not in your best interests. She should be talking about that and explaining what you can do to accept it and move on. Remote diagnosing a person is unprofessional and not her job, even if she thinks that doing so will aid you somehow.


elconejorojo

That makes quite a bit of sense. I have another session with her next week and will bring that up to her, as well as a few other points that others have contributed to this post that also make sense to me. Thank you.


DataTypeC

Autism can cause ASPD like traits in people with it, especially high functioning ones that seem off but not that off socially. Also autism and ASPD both usually have similar traits but differ in other ways similar would be lack of emotional intelligence( ASPD can develop cognitive empathy to read people as well Autism may depends on the severity) breaking social norms (the causes and reasons differ) and overall people can be assholes in general no matter what mental illness or lack of they have. Basically don’t take a counselors word at it always go for a second opinion clinical psychologist can actually diagnose if you can convince him to do so but take it with a grain of salt whether or not they’re correct in their diagnosis. At the end of the day you’re either happy and want to stay accept them for who they are or ask them to work on certain issues. The only other two options is leave or stay quite and unhappy or unsure (if you are)


elconejorojo

Thank you for this. I feel like I’m getting even more confused the more research I do because he doesn’t fit the part where he gaslights or tries to make me feel bad about myself but the manipulation and the joy he seemed to get from it scared me away from thinking I actually know who he is much less being able to trust him not to do that to me. Your advice has really helped with validating my thoughts but also with options on how to move forward. I’ll have to give it a bit more time to process it all and go back to talking/ asking him questions and being honest with my thoughts and fears and see how he responds. I’m hoping for the best but afraid I’ll be manipulated and won’t know until it’s too late.


DataTypeC

At the end of the day do what’s most beneficial for you. You just figure out whether or not you can live with it or not. But if he’s not doing anything wrong involving your relationship or what you’re ok with I don’t see why it should effect the relationship much but if it does then make whatever decision of what you want out of life. Some people may think it’s narcissistic to put yourself before others but everyone does to some extent when making life decisions


Pure-Bumblebee3727

I’d be PISSED for even asking cuz of an illness they are willfully stigmatizing, only viewing me as the disorder and not the person behind it. Not even one he is diagnosed with either. I cant comment on the manipulation but u haven’t shared much other info on that, if u think he is horribly manipulative then def cut him off for ur own good


elconejorojo

Okay, we’ll then how would you feel about instead of a convo between him, me and the counselor, I see if he’s up for an another conversation between just us.. an extension or spin off of the last one based on the stuff I suspect and talked about with my counselor so that he’s filled in on what’s going on? If you were in his shoes, would that also piss you off? Of everything I’ve been reading, the one major constant I’ve never seen with him do to me, is to put me down or make me feel bad. Not even in a subtle way. But the cavalier attitude at the manipulation does feel like a major red flag. And hypothetically speaking, if it turns out he is ASPD, but lies about it while we’re having this talk, I’m not going to know. It’s usually difficult for me to tell when someone is lying unless it’s just a really bad lie.


YeezusIsTheNewJesus

The dude literally foreshadowed he was gonna emotionally hurt her lmao fuck that shit. Also his behavior and lying to her? Fuck that lol I’m out.


elconejorojo

Easier said than done. I've spent nearly every day with this guy for the past year and a half either hanging out or just talking and texting. I'm very emotionally attached to him.


YeezusIsTheNewJesus

I mean from my eyes that ARENT blinded by love, you dodged a bullet.


elconejorojo

I wish mine weren’t blinded either. it would be so much easier to move on.


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dalia666

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thing but why are you continuing to waste your time? It seems like you’re trying your hardest to find a good enough excuse to return to him and let me guess, you’ve convinced yourself that you’re able to *fix* him? It sounds like an abusive “relationship” waiting to happen. How can I say this nicely? Hmmm. He doesn’t care about you. At all.


elconejorojo

I don’t want to fix him. I want to fix our friendship. I want to know if we can come to some kind of compromise where we both get our needs met without crossing each other’s boundaries.


dalia666

But it won’t work. You’ve already shown that you are too emotionally involved in this “friendship”.


elconejorojo

I don’t understand why being emotionally involved In our friendship is a bad thing and won’t allow what I want, to work.


dalia666

…If you want dick just say that.


elconejorojo

I did say it but you couldn’t be bothered to read it because my post was too long. And it was just in the beginning. I just want to know if our friendship can be fixed/saved without crossing each other’s boundaries like I previously mentioned.


dalia666

Yeah, and I said no. It wouldn’t work.


paperofbelief

What are your boundaries tho


elconejorojo

I’m just asking him not to lie to me.


paperofbelief

That's quite a vague expectation you have of them. If they're not to lie to you, then what questions are you going to ask?


elconejorojo

Anything really for the most part. For example, if he gets into a car accident, don’t lie about what really happened or don’t just flat out make up shit for no reason just cuz he wants to see if I’ll believe his story. It’s a friendship; not a game. I don’t feel like playing 2 truths and a lie every time he opens his mouth to speak.


YeezusIsTheNewJesus

You literally blocked him and you’re gonna go back lol?


elconejorojo

I did block him. Blocking him and cutting off communication between us went completely against what I wanted to do, which was fix our communication issues. If I didn't block him, he wouldn't respect my boundaries to not contact me while I process. I know this because whenever I ask for time to process without his interference, he never listens. So I blocked him. But that doesn't mean I don't miss the heck out of him. I'm desperately looking for valid reasons to unblock him and continue the friendship. He is someone I felt early on that I wanted as a life long friend but we're just going to keep going in circles and drive each other crazy if we can't come to some compromise with the lying and manipulating thing.