A response from yesterday's victim-blaming incel.
By - auberus
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Maybe men should try to be less rapey? Naw, it’s the fault of women and their clothes being form fitting.
This. People shouldn't have to carry a gum to avoid being raped, because no one should be raping them in the first place.
I get that n and m are next to each other but i just imagined someone using gum as a rape-repellant.
Shove gum in their eyes
I’m picturing a king-fu movie style scene where a lady destroys a bunch of would-be rapists with her pack of gum.
Ugh that's brutal. I think I'd rather just smash someone's eyes than do that lol.
Wouldnt stop it anyways. Most instances of rape are done by people you know and trust well enough. Like what does dude thinks happens? Lone lady walking down a dark alley and suddenly from 20 feet away big hard man warns that he's a rapist and comming to rape the lady?
Either it's someone that they know and they're already physically close to them or it's someone that sneaks up on em and over powers them. The gun isnt gonna whip out on springs from out of the woman's purse/pocket/magical portal.
I mean, if someone is following you, then you can have a clear gun shown on your hip so when they see that, this prevents a rape from happening.
This is a strawman because this doesn't change the fact that if you arm yourselves, then at least rapes (and all crime in general) will go down as a result.
All you're doing is making excuses for why something isn't possible therefore saying that it shouldn't be done which is and because you could do that for any problem, and you could come to the conclusion that we shouldn't do anything to make us safer at all just because there are ways that might go wrong.
So what happens if the rapist is also carrying a gun? So it becomes a matter of who whips out the gun first. Why dont we all run around whipping guns out at each other constantly?
Will people carry guns at home? Invite someone over and strap the gun on? Husband just got home time to pack heat? It's not gonna reduce rape my any amount that matters. Nor any crime for that matter, because you cant always be aware of an attacker. Nor will it stop someone from holding power over an other. You cant whip out your gun at an employer that that threathens your job/career if you dont let em have sex with you. People submit to rape for more reasons than random street attacker that suddenly jumped you.
Spiked drinks, coercion, blackmail, power dynamics, someone whipping the gun out at you first, taking advantage of someone who cant do a thing about it for whatever reason. You're living in a fantassy if you think guns will solve everything, let alone rape. No weapon has ever resolved a social issue.
The only way to stop rape is to convince people to not rape.
We shouldn't have a police because people shouldn't be criminals in the first place, but we do because people choose to be criminals and if we don't have a police force, crimes will happen freely, and there will be nobody to keep them in check.
Just because something shouldn't be done, it doesn't mean you don't do them.
I think from a very young age boys are taught there are things men just do and it's okay. Sexual comments, leering, lack of self control, all that kinda of stuff. Couple that with certain expected behaviors like being tough and assertive you end up with grown ass men who ever learned personal responsibility or self control or how to properly seek help.
School dress codes are a good example, they punish the girl who's being harassed rather than teaching the boy self control.
Or how about both? They're not saying it's women's fault, they're saying they should arm themselves so rapes can go down, this is not a bad idea, and if anything it's pro-women because you're advocating for them to be empowered by learning to defend themselves.
But men will never be less rapey. It's not victim blaming to say to take precautions when going into a possibly dangerous situation. I always carry pepper spray with me, for example, as do many women. Just for extra safety.
Of course we need to be aware. That’s why I never really drink. I don’t want to be vulnerable out there.
Good, so you should understand that there's nothing wrong with saying that if people in general take precautions to not let bad things happen, then instances of those bad things happening will go down, there's no reason to argue against this.
So by that logic...
If a chad beats the shit out an lncel on the street because he didn't like the way he looked,
Are we supposed to not feel sorry for him because it's his fault for not being physically strong enough to defend himself? That he was asking for it because of the way he looked?
Yeah don't make sense either. But that's the same line of fucking logic this asshat is going by
I prefer the Rolex and Ray-ban example
“Of course you got robbed! Look at what you were wearing! Any sensible person wouldn’t wear those out in public or cover them up! You were asking to be robbed.”
[Relevant Tracey Ullman's Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51-hepLP8J4)
It's not that "you were asking to be robbed"
It's that if you didn't wear them, you wouldn't have gotten robbed. Nobody is saying that those criminals are not responsible for doing the robbing because the victim wore them in public.
It's just true whether you like it or not that if they didn't wear them, they wouldn't gotten robbed therefore it would have been best if they didn't wear them. There's nothing wrong with pointing this out.
>Are we supposed to not feel sorry for
him because it's his fault for not being physically strong enough to
defend himself? That he was asking for it because of the way he looked?
No because they didn't make a statement about whether you should feel sorry or not sorry about them whether they did something that caused them to be hurt.
All they said was an objective truth that if you take precautions, you will lesson the chances of being hurt. That's not a statement on whether you should feel empathy for someone who got hurt despite if they wore something or not.
I can think that someone made decision that led them to being hurt, and still be sorry for them for being hurt. Two things can be true at once. It's a bad idea to walk around in a bad neighborhood wearing expensive bling that will certainly grab the attention of potential muggers, that doesn't mean that i'm saying that those muggers are not wrong for robbing that person.
Being a criminal is bad, that's true.
A person should do things to lesson the chances of them being hurt in their own best interest for the sake of self preservation, that's also true.
Why is it a bad thing?
If all women were to arm themselves, even with just something stab with, you would hear more cases of women being able to thwart off their potential attackers because they were armed, and guess what's gonna happen. Would be rapists would watching all the news of that happening, and the next time they see a woman on the street, they will think about all the other rapists that tried, and got hurt, and they would think twice before assaulting a woman on the street.
And in that instance, rape would go down.
That to me sounds like a good idea.
The amount of rapes would go down because women get to carry firearms? Does he forget that this means the men who rape could also carry firearms? Does he forget women can get drugged before they get raped?
He has definitely no understanding of how the world works. A knife/gun and some self defence classes won't solve the problem of rape. He's totally delusional.
His narrative also proves that he has no clue about the topic he's talking about.
Eventhough it happens, rape is not primarily a "stranger danger" type of crime but typically an abuse of power (physically, emotionally, professionally etc) by a person of trust.
This! I knew both of my rapists. (Separate incidents, 5 years apart.)
Men: Just STOP RAPING!
Yep, I had a good friend in HS who was raped by her boyfriend on New Years Eve, her mom had to take her to the hospital. She never even considered reporting it because it was her boyfriend and she loved him.
So much in fact, she had her mom pick the guy up on her way home. Textbook abusive relationship.
Thankfully, myself and a few friends helped her get out of the relationship but we had to physically walk her from class to class to keep her safe. What did she know? She was only 16.
If I had to do it over again, the only thing I’d do differently was push her harder to report him. She’s in a great place now, so I’m not sure reporting would have helped her mental recovery.
I’m an Attorney now, it’s 15 years later, and I still think about it and despise the guy who did it to her. Even as her friend, it was probably one of my most formative adolescence experiences. I couldn’t imagine how she felt.
Point is, for any guys out there listening:
Propagating the “jump out of the bushes rapist” mythology only helps these sickos.
I hope you had a good network of support around you, even then it’s traumatizing. As a society we need to expect more from our men and boys.
Most cases occur from someone the victim knows, either a relationship or a family member. They don't hide in alleyways or dingy bars, they are waiting in a familiar environment to coerce you or deceive you.
Going through reporting and courts is extremely traumatic. Telling the police over and over again, telling more strangers over and over again what happened... worse when it's family and no one believes you and no one wants to help you. Some situations the person who abused you is the bread winner of the family unit, sending them away then makes it hard to actually live. It's not as easy as people make it out to seem when it comes to reporting, the victim's life is already ruined and the process of sending someone to a jail causes more anxiety, guilt and trauma than moving away and never seeing them again.
I really wish we could stop saying this, but here we are...
How about we lower the number of rape ATTEMPTS ? Instead of the number of women actually raped. There's a thought. Maybe just don't rape people?
Also its been proven that officers with guns can easily get hurt by someone with a knife. You'll see videos of a two dudes standing like 8 feet apart. One with a fake pistol and the other with a fake knife. The guy with the knife will charge the guy with the gun and 99% of the time the guy with the gun gets "stabbed" because he couldn't draw his weapon fast enough. So even if your armed it might not matter if the person's close enough to you.
>The amount of rapes would go down because women get to carry firearms?
Does he forget that this means the men who rape could also carry
Typically people will not want to get into gun fights, the only reason criminals have a gun, and feel confident about trying to hurt others with it is because they assume that they don't have a gun to fight back with, if they do, then they wouldn't be trying to hurt them in the first place.
>Does he forget women can get drugged before they get raped?
Uhh, no because it's still true. That still doesn't change the fact that in cases where women don't get drugged, those rapes will still go down. Just because there are other what if scenarios it doesn't make the action itself of taking precautions pointless.
Just the equivalent of if someone were to say "People on construction sites should wear hard hats in case that an object from up high falls down on them" and then another person responds "But what if that object happens to be a really piano or a big piece of furniture? Hard hats are not gonna protect you" Yeah, obviously, that doesn't mean hard hats are useless, and that there's no point in wearing them. There are many what if scenarios to every single aspect of taking safety, and precautions, that doesn't mean that it's all just "pointless" Taking precautions will objectively still make you safer in the case of a scenario that it's not a piano falling on you, or you were not drugged before hand, if you don't do anything at all, you will be hurt in every scenario so logically it's better to take precautions even if it won't have a 100% chance of preventing you from getting hurt.
I gave some random what ifs because I was a bit upset. The fact is most of the rape cases are personal (at home, near home, with friends, at family, with a partner) or happen at a bar or party when drinks get spiked. You wouldn't think to take a gun out in any of these close to home situations or when you're unconscious.
Maybe it would prevent the cases where there are thugs around the corner waiting to get the jump on you but its also likely they're armed too in this situation - as you pointed out criminals are more likely to carry a weapon. And instead of a gun, self defence techniques and running away is actually more effective.
I'll tell you the rape prevention techniques that do work and spoiler alert, it hasn't been a gun. Its never going out alone, its sending safe people your location information when you get scared, its getting away from terrible home situations, being cautious around people you know (and even love), taking self defense classes, watching your drinks 24/7, never accepting drinks from someone else, calling the police when you get followed and carrying mace/pepper spray.
"Women should be responsible for their own safety" he says while absolving men of any moral responsibility by furthering the assumption that 'some men are always going to be rapey fucks, nothing we can do about it and women should just know better than to exist around them'.
No it doesn't.
Saying that doing something will increase the chances of you getting hurt is not a moral statement about the action of the attacker.
I can think that women should do things to lessen the chances of getting hurt, and that a rapist still has moral responsibility in hurting their victim.
Me saying a cause and affect statement isn't me saying a moral statement.
If I say that a man walking in the middle of the street will get robbed for wearing an expensive watch, it's not the same thing as saying that the mugger had a right, and morally justified in stealing the expensive watch just because the man was wearing it in public.
These are two different frameworks of discussion that are not the same thing.
Dude I carry a knife and pepper spray everywhere. I was still attacked. Dumbass
I’m so sorry
No worries just morons like this are ridiculous
Yea and the moment I decide to shoot someones brain out because they try to rape me I get put in jail. This man really thinks it is easy for women to protect themselves and that we should be on guard 24/7 having our guns ready at all times to shoot the brains out of any man that crosses our path.
Okay then change the laws then.
Wanna know who should be blamed for that happening?
Blame the anti-gun politicians who made complicated laws that essentially jail people for rightfully defending themselves, there was literally a time in some states where if someone was just breaking into your property, you had a legal right to shoot them dead on the spot with no repercussions.
No no, he has a point. Let's make it legal for any girl that feels threatened of being raped to have no legal repercussions for shooting and killing the attacker. Also if they get attacked if they so choose they legally have a 7 day window to kill that person. Or you know, fucking stop being piece of shits who can't fathom consent. Which the prior will probably come first.
Today's looking grim
"The Truth hurts" the Truth is that ur an Asshole ...
And that hurts his fragile ego!
*shoots the guy* I'm innocent. It's not my fault he didn't wear a bulletproof vest. He should've done more for his own defense. His own fault.
That response was really well thought out. I love his response though. “Hope you’re offended and angry libtard!” No, just sad that people like him exist and a hope that if he does decide to hurt someone he starts with himself.
Yeah, because only women are trying to ban guns and therefore deserve to be raped for not protecting themselves, or whatever that nonsense was he was spewing from his vapid and vacuous head.🤦
They’re more likely to get killed if they have a weapon. And it’s not easy to pull a gun when someone is right in front of you.
How stupid he is to think that guns can bring the rape rate down...
Maybe men should have curfew to make sure people's safety to be honest. Why most of murders and rapists are men? I think they need to be watched.
As a person who has 20 years of martial arts traning behind him.... pls don’t just take a weapon with u If u are not trained with it!
In conflict. U are pumped with adrenaline. Even if it’s „just“ maze. In Stress situations it’s more commen to maze urself. A gun ? A knife? Well if the other is calmer and maybe more experience or just has luck he will most likely just disarm u and then has the weapon.
Either way. Victim blaming is stupid and I know this is not the point of this post. It’s just even more stupid if u think about it.
I wish i could show this to every woman in his life- past, present & future
Ah yes, carry a weapon to turn rape into rape and murder. The best chance of getting away in such a situation is either make a scene to get help or run away.
I don't think a firearm would do anything. It doesn't make the situation any less scary. It is a huge shock when someone does something against your will or tries to do something against your will. I can't imagine there's that much you can do about it. Most rapes also happen in the circle of acquaintances by acquaintances. Maybe in that situation you don't even have the weapon at hand.
One should stop looking for the guilt with the others. You should start teaching people (mostly men. sorry if that sounds sexist :/) what are the psychological consequences for the victim of rape and especially that only the rapist is to blame for rape.
What is a gun going to do if you are drugged? There’s nothing worse than worrying if you ought to be suspicious because your food is salty.
"Maybe if women carried guns and knew how to defend themselves the number of rapes would go down" ?
I think I might have an epiphany! Praise this nice guy who was nice enough to tell us all that RAPE IS OUR FAULT cause we don't know how to defend ourselves!
What a fucking POS.
No. Maybe if men learned how to keep it in their pants and uuuh idk NOT RAPE WOMEN, then maybe, just maybe, the number of rapes would go down?
But what do I know. I'm just a woman who provokes rape by simply existing.
Sigh, ffs. My fiancé and I fell for each other so quickly **because** she values her safety. Aside from the physical and emotional attraction we had, she also felt safe and comfortable around me which was the most important thing for her.
Anyone can fake that long before their abusive tendencies come out and she learned through experience how to tell when it’s put on. These people never understand that abusers are always on their best behaviour in the first phase of the relationship.
There is one small issue I have with the response. My fiancé and I aren’t particularly “healthy” but that isn’t our fault. We’re both neurodivergent from years of trauma which we struggle with and try and treat every day, which would be confusing and distressing to a neurotypical partner, so I don’t think it should be seen as a failure for not aspiring to have a neurotypical partner as someone who suffers from mental illness.
I’ve tried it before, it ended amicably enough and she (neurotypical ex) even admitted there were things about me she didn’t/couldn’t understand which is nobody’s fault.
We have an understanding that we can’t have with anyone else and help each other with support and encouragement instead of being enmeshed in each others issues.
I don’t believe being getting completely psychologically healthy should be a requisite for a relationship, especially when there is no cure and treatments are difficult for things like PTSD and BPD and would take us years even if the mental healthcare system wasn’t as broken as it is. The premise we should have gotten “fixed” before getting together is just far too much to ask.
Then again, neither of us go around blaming r*pe victims and pretending to be villains on the internet, so I understand you most likely mean “be self aware enough to not be a toxic dickhead before thinking about pursuing relationships” which I do agree with.
Americans thinking having more guns is better than banning them, another proof of him being brainless
I truly don’t understand gun culture. I’m not saying there are no gun related deaths here in the UK (sorry, not sure where you’re from) as there’s a criminal underbelly where there are illegal guns but for the most part no one has guns and no one needs a gun to defend themselves from someone with a gun. Only specialist police have guns and they’re only there for certain armed response calls. I don’t live in fear of someone pulling a gun on me because there are very few of them here.
I'm from France and I'm a big fan of guns to be honest, but yeah thinking logically the police should always have an advantage on potential criminals, you can't fight fire with fire am I right ? ( French expression I don't think it translates well)
I am down with bringing back large fancy hats with large dagger like hat pins. Women used to use hat pins to fend off attackers and large fancy hats are pretty cool... I also use a cane so I could go with sword cane or gun cane. Mounted mini machine guns for my wheelchair? I mean, none of these defenses would protect me from being raped but they would be awesome.
Yes, because fighting violence with violence *always* works out well. Maybe instead all women should be given an attack dog at birth? Or maybe they can be trained on how to use bush snippers to stop their attacker in his tracks? Oh, I got it, let's stop teaching our sons the bullshit we've been teaching since the dawn of time, and instead teach them empathy, kindness, critical thinking. Let's educate our sons on what it is like to be a good human being.
And he's probably gonna be the first guy to get shot for being too pushy then complain how he was just being nice.
Probably posts joker faces with quotes like "The pain never stops so I don't stop it" or "Women hate nice guys... so I became the bad guy"
Hey.. maybe if guys don't uh ya know, have the intention to rape anyone, women probably don't have to invest in a fucking gun just to be able to walk around at night. (This concept applies to both/all genders)
Maybe instead of justifying these horrible behaviors, try not doing that.
Anytime I walk home on a late night shift, I get scared the shit out of me whenever people walk behind me. The quiet, the isolation, the paranoia, the fear, the helplessness people experience in those moments are nightmare fuel.
What they said wasn't wrong, they're not an incel for saying this.
I blame the rapist 100%, however I also support buying a gun and learning how to use it, because the law is not on our side, society is not on our side, we can rage all we want but it’s not going to result in an increase in the percentage of rapes which are prosecuted in the end. It’s not going to get through to every parent raising a son that they are the ones who can stop the cycle right now.
Nothing we do or say is going to get through to men like the one in the original post.
We must be prepared to defend ourselves from them.
As an active feminist for 20+ years I already know how you will react to this, denial and down-votes. Women are morally opposed to defending themselves, we have been brainwashed by a patriarchal society to accept that guns are for men, our little lady hands couldn’t possibly control them, so we shouldn’t worry about defending ourselves. And women have internalized this, so many hate the concept of guns, when guns are the great equalizer in a fight against a larger attacker.
Only predators benefit when we accept their insistence that guns are unladylike.
guns are only helpful at a distance. anyone physically attacking you will not be in that range, and the gun will be as much as useless. and that's not even taking into account that most rapes are by people you know and trust. the backalley stranger very obviously following you where you can get your gun in your hand is *not* the typical situation. and in that situation, having pepper-spray or something that will incapacitate them in close range without aim/good grip mattering.
people aren't disagreeing with you because they've been "brainwashed", they're disagreeing with you because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the topic. nobody cares about guns being "unladylike" but you. i'm sure that you'll just ignore this tho, since it sounds like plenty of others have already explained this to you in the past and you just stuck your fingers in your ears and called them brainwashed
Honestly, I don't even get how a gun would protect you from rape in a majority of situations where gun ownership is common.
Do you walk around with your gun drawn 24/7? If you have a gun, what stops a potential rapist from having a gun, and if they have a gun and bad intentions, how you do prevent them from holding you at gunpoint before you can access your own weapon?
It's not like guns magically stop others from threatening you with a gun. It can help in some situations, but then you get into the question of if making guns more accessible in general makes more of a threat, or less of one.
I'm surprised that, as a gun owner, you're unaware that not every county in the US is willing to throw out CCWs like confetti. Owning guns does not automatically equal the ability to legally carry everywhere one goes. Also, even if every woman in the US did carry a gun everywhere she went, the impact on sexual assault numbers would likely be negligible, as the overwhelming number of sexual assaults are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts. And this is not even factoring in child victims of sexual abuse.
Most women who choose not to own guns make that choice for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with thinking their "little lady hands couldn't possibly control them." Some women just don't feel comfortable with guns (just as plenty of men don't). Some women have felony convictions that prohibit legal gun ownership. Some women do own guns but don't have the ability or desire to take them literally everywhere just in case someone attempts a sexual assault.
And I can't help but say that the heavy NLOG vibes from your comment are pretty hilarious from a woman your age. But guess what? I'm about to blow your mind here: there are tens of millions of female gun owners in the US (sorry if this makes you feel a little less special). Some of us just recognize that owning guns doesn't count as a personality.
No such thing as police and laws. We live in an anarchy.